|
|
Post by froggie on Mar 23, 2004 19:00:22 GMT -5
I write poetry when the mood strikes me.
I have tried to write a few songs, but the lyrics always end up sounding trite. Or, I am only able to come up with a chorus or a verse but not a whole song...
I am also not the greatest of guitarists, which I feel is unable contributing factor to my difficulties... I think it would help if I could figure out what chords sound good together, etc...
Any insight, in general??
|
|
|
|
Post by konzertmeister on Mar 25, 2004 22:51:39 GMT -5
Hi Froggie, If you are having difficulties with the music itself, I would kindly offer you a teeny little bit of music theory; hopefully enough for "fitting" your songs together with your words. I'm curious where you are at with the guitar. And don't be shy - we all started somewhere. For instance, do you know the Major chords on the guitar? A through G?  |
|
|
|
Post by froggie on Mar 29, 2004 19:35:47 GMT -5
Yeah, I know all of the major chords and about half of the minor ones.
I'm still very much a beginner on the guitar. I can only really play about 3 songs, and parts of others. Rhythm not lead... I haven't been practising as much as I should lately to learn new songs, but I have the basics of strumming and chord progressions...
Any insight would be much appreciated. Also, if there are any books that you found helpful, that would be great as well!!
|
|
|
|
Post by konzertmeister on Mar 29, 2004 22:33:27 GMT -5
That's great that you know your chords. Do you understand the meaning of keys? Like key of A or E, for example? That's pretty important for song writing because it gives you a basic set of chords within the framework of the key your song is in. The next thing that I think would be helpful (and even more important than chords) is understanding your scales. I'm not talking about memorizing the notes, but learning the different scale degrees, and hearing how they change your chords. Since you mention it, the books I know of that were really helpful to me... I don't remember the titles and authors, nor do I know if they are still in print. I believe the author of The Heavy Guitar Bible is Richard Daniels. That was the most comprehensive book I can recommend. If I remember correctly, chapter 3 even deals specifically with songwriting. Granted, it merely surveys that realm, but it's a start. I've been working with some girls on the E. coast & Europe, and this site has been helpful in getting them started, and then they e-mail me with questions or for examples. I highly suggest that you begin in the lessons section under Major Scales, unless your're disciplined enough to work it through step by step from the top down. Ideally, I'd say, begin at the beginning, and work your way through. I know it may seem overwhelming at the sight of it, but if you do one unit a week, or even one unit a month, think where you'll be in one year. And use the ear trainer, too. That should really help with your songwriting; to put what you're hearing in your head into the guitar. www.musictheory.net/ |
|
Soph
Full Member
Posts: 60
|
Post by Soph on Mar 30, 2004 3:56:27 GMT -5
thats some good advice konzertmiester...
but yeah... i got some advice of my own too:
all guitar players should know how to play/or the layout of a piano... it helps SO much... to know how to play scales... and chords on the piano...
the piano is so dynamically advantaged ...more so than other instruments and its a good medium to practise singing scales as well as hearing chords and training your ear to pitch...
|
|
|
|
Post by froggie on Apr 1, 2004 15:47:38 GMT -5
This site looks really useful. Thanks!! |
|
|
|
Post by konzertmeister on Apr 2, 2004 23:05:11 GMT -5
Yeah, Soph!! I defnitely have to agree with that. I grew up with a piano in the house - and I think it is one of those things I never even had to think about.
So Froggie - if you have no piano, even if you just get a little keyboard, it will definitely help you to understand the scale degrees.
For example, why is there no B-sharp or F-flat?
Definitely good advice.
|
|
|
|
Post by Dragon on May 19, 2004 15:30:17 GMT -5
Poetry is wonderful because the reader gets to take as much time as they want to read it and enjoy it. I often write in verse even if it's stream of conscious. In order to translate poetry into lyrics, you should try to make the words more accessible to the listener. Certain words and sounds are perfect for poetry but are hard to sing. Cadence is important in both song and poetry. The cadence of a poem can work for a song but often you will have to change some words or lines. Think of other ways to express what you are trying to say. Simplicity can show true genius.
As far as music with your guitar...trial and error my friend. You can use single notes to keep things uncomplicated. You can also just put your fingers wherever until you find a sound/chord you like. Pick one note at a time of a chord to hear the different notes you can sing with it. There are of course other notes not in the chord that can work, but it's a good start. You can also strum the chord or note and try singing different notes over it to see what you like. Good luck, things will get better just keep playing!
|
|
|
|
Post by truejuggalette on Jun 3, 2004 22:38:24 GMT -5
That's great that you know your chords. Do you understand the meaning of keys? Like key of A or E, for example? That's pretty important for song writing because it gives you a basic set of chords within the framework of the key your song is in. The next thing that I think would be helpful (and even more important than chords) is understanding your scales. I'm not talking about memorizing the notes, but learning the different scale degrees, and hearing how they change your chords. Since you mention it, the books I know of that were really helpful to me... I don't remember the titles and authors, nor do I know if they are still in print. I believe the author of The Heavy Guitar Bible is Richard Daniels. That was the most comprehensive book I can recommend. If I remember correctly, chapter 3 even deals specifically with songwriting. Granted, it merely surveys that realm, but it's a start. I've been working with some girls on the E. coast & Europe, and this site has been helpful in getting them started, and then they e-mail me with questions or for examples. I highly suggest that you begin in the lessons section under Major Scales, unless your're disciplined enough to work it through step by step from the top down. Ideally, I'd say, begin at the beginning, and work your way through. I know it may seem overwhelming at the sight of it, but if you do one unit a week, or even one unit a month, think where you'll be in one year. And use the ear trainer, too. That should really help with your songwriting; to put what you're hearing in your head into the guitar. www.musictheory.net/i have the encyclopedia of guitar chordes in picture colour and i still get confused so im going for lessons |
|
|
|
Post by konzertmeister on Jun 5, 2004 11:34:45 GMT -5
Some guitar books simply barage the reader with millions of chord diagrams. Who really analyses these chords anyway? When I am writing a song, I hear it and feel it in my head and heart, then work it out later.
One thing I found most helpful in my early beginning, was learning simple rock songs. Very simple 3-chord songs at first like Louie Louie (EEE AA BBB AA) and La Bamba (DD GG A). ( you might try listening to an oldies radio station if you can, for early rock tunes.) As I learned other songs, I noticed patterns and structure similarities. Not to mention, I learned lots of new chords. Then the books started to make more sense to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by kazmitchell on Aug 21, 2004 17:13:36 GMT -5
Hi. I'm a singer/songwriter, and have been for many years, and it took me many of them to discover what I know now! I wish I'd had more sense to ask for advice like you're doing now!! Anyway, I've been running creative writing classes recently, and one of the things people have found helpful to get started with is to use a poem/song that they find inspiring and then use it as a template. Firstly, what you have to do is a brainstorm around a word that comes to mind and fills you with curiosity. For instance, let's use the word "open". Write the word down in the middle of a page, then add other words that come to mind that the word open makes you think of all around it. This should take five minutes or so. Then you have the ideas for a new song. Next stage is to play around with sentences that you can make from the brainstroming session. This may take longer than just the one session, and you may have to keep coming back to it, but do persevere. It might even be you have a collection of brainstorming ideas that will one day become a song. But hey, I'm probably teaching to the converted if you already write poetry! When you feel you've "got" something, ie a message you're trying to get across, and some nice poetic imagery, then you use you're template. Take a song you like, write out the words, then count the lines in the verses, the chorus and a bridge if there is one. Break each line down into syllables. Then work on the lyrics you have by either lengthening or shortening sentences to fit the template. Once you've done this a few times with different songs, I'm sure you'll develop you're own sense of style and rhythmn. Hope this was helpful, and good luck! Just don't give in, that's the main piece of advice I'd offer. Kaz Mitchell www.kazmitchell.com.au |
|
|
|
Post by froggie on Aug 21, 2004 20:14:38 GMT -5
That was really helpful, kazmitchell. I would say those creative writing classes are paying off. I took a college level creative writing course, which was really cool. Mostly we did short stories and poems, but we never meandered into the world of lyrics. I do have some really cool poems that would translate into cool messages for songs. However, the cadence isn't right for a direct translation... But the steps you gave me should definately give me something to work from... It makes it easier when you can go through steps 1-5... Thanks again, to everyone!! |
|
|
|
Post by truejuggalette on Oct 8, 2004 5:32:02 GMT -5
I write poetry when the mood strikes me. I have tried to write a few songs, but the lyrics always end up sounding trite. Or, I am only able to come up with a chorus or a verse but not a whole song... I am also not the greatest of guitarists, which I feel is unable contributing factor to my difficulties... I think it would help if I could figure out what chords sound good together, etc... Any insight, in general?? Hey Froggie, i have the same problem and still havent figured it out though i have written a few lyrics when i get the chance in a few weeks ill type them out but mind you im better at poetry then lyrics. |
|
